August 1967

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02. August 1967 – The first Asura

One certainly sees that: with those who are the very opposite, who grovel on the ground, there is no stuff, you can't do anything with them; so you have to try and give them a little self-confidence. But that's nothing. While with those others you can do something, but... oh, they become furious with you!

The contact with the great Asuras, the first Asuras, is like that: the full consciousness of their formidable power, their marvellous capacities — they forget one thing, it's that they deserve no credit for it, it's not their exclusive property! So they cut the connection and become instruments of disorder and confusion.

This one, the Lord of Falsehood....

To the human consciousness, those things are terrible, but seen from up above, they make you smile. I remember, when I met him during the war (I had ruined his work with Hitler, then I met him), I told him, "You know quite well that your time is over." He said, "I know it, but until I disappear I will wreak as much havoc as I can."

Childishness.

"If you unite your consciousness with the Supreme Consciousness and manifest It, all you think, feel or do becomes luminous and true. It is not the subject of the teaching which is to be changed, it is the consciousness with which you teach that must be enlightened."

"So long as one is for some and against others, one is necessarily far from the Truth.

"All present politics is based on falsehood, and no nation can entirely escape this falsehood.

"De Gaulle has an embryo of inner life, he knows that there is a force higher than the physical and mental forces — and that is why he is more receptive than many others.

"But he has ideas, principles, preferences and so on, and as such, he can make gross errors as any other human being.

"It is through this whole jumble and chaos that the Truth-Consciousness is at work everywhere, on all the points of the earth at once, in all nations, all individualities, without preferences or distinctions, wherever there is a spark of consciousness capable of receiving and manifesting It."

(July 29, 1967)

"To be perpetually reborn is the condition of material immortality."

Sri Aurobindo

02. Aug 1967 – A mystery between the physical & subtle physical body

Day after day, almost hour after hour, as the Power comes back... You remember, I once said it had gone completely, and that was true, it had gone completely in order to leave the body absolutely to itself, for its conversion, we could say; but once there had been in this body consciousness the same aspiration and the same ardour of consciousness (with a far greater steadiness than in any other part of the being; there are no fluctuations as there are in the vital and mind, it's very steady), once that was established (through kinds of pulsations, not distant from one another, first on one detail, then spreading out and becoming generalized), since then the Power has been... I can say it has been coming back. But at each stage of that return, all the old difficulties appear to be waking up again, they seem to spring up again (they had completely fallen asleep, you understand), and each time, this body consciousness feels a sort of surprise, at once astonished and distressed that the presence of the divine Power, the divine Consciousness, the Truth-Consciousness, should give rise to all those difficulties, which are essentially difficulties of ignorance and inertia — the incapacity to receive. And it comes back as memories, like that (gesture from below), like a snake rearing its head. And every time, everything in the physical consciousness has the same call, "Why? How can these things be when You are there!" That's the astonishing thing: "Since You are there, how can these things be?"

Till now, in the majority of cases, this has signalled a conversion, a transformation, an illumination (depending on the case), but this case we were just talking about (the Tantric apprentice) came precisely as a result of that return of the Power (I knew it; he told me yesterday, but I knew it when he had his revolt). And all that came was just all the old revolts, all the old movements, which were previously so strong, so widespread, so ESTABLISHED, and had been as though halted in their expression by the withdrawal of the Power. So everyone was slumbering in his condition. Then, as soon as the Force started coming back and working again, it all woke up.

But it's not the full Presence yet, not the complete Presence of the being, which, through an incontrovertible omnipotence, changes things. And then, the body, with something so very moving in the simplicity of its prayer and its childlike astonishment, asks, "Since You are there, how can that be?..." And all that is ready to be transformed is transformed. But it isn't yet... (how can I explain?) the compelling thing (gesture of irresistible descent), the absolute authority that nothing can resist — it's not that, not yet, far from it.

There's no knowing how much more time it will take.

All that is on the point of changing changes.

Otherwise, the slow underground labour, invisible, almost imperceptible, continues.

(silence)

The interesting point is that this body spontaneously, immediately and effortlessly — spontaneously — tries to find in itself, in the body's cells (it's a whole WORLD! A whole world), the cells try to find in themselves, "Oh, where is my incapacity? Where is my helplessness? Where is... even my bad will or my stupidity or incapacity to understand and adhere?" Like that. And always the same answer, "Give everything, give everything, give everything.... I don't understand, I cannot understand, I don't know, I cannot know — I cannot do anything, I am incapable of doing by myself: everything is for You, do it."

They try and try, everything tries to give itself perfectly, perfectly, that is, without exception — everything, everything.

It's a sort of... not anxiety, but above all a vigilance, as if they were on the alert: "May we do nothing but what You want, think nothing but what You want, feel nothing but what You want, say nothing but what You want...." Constantly, uninterruptedly, night and day, whether in the middle of activity or in the middle of rest, "To be what You want, to feel what You want, to do what You want, to exist... without distinction."

The slightest pain, any discomfort, the slightest clumsy gesture, the slightest thing, and immediately, "Ah! (with a start) This isn't You."

(Mother goes into a contemplation)

The subtle physical seems to be more and more transformed. There is still a mystery between the two. A mystery. They are coexistent (the physical and the subtle physical bodies), and yet... (gesture of a lack of connection), the subtle physical doesn't appear to have an influence on this (the body).

Something... Something to be found... something.

05. August 1967 – Sri Aurobindo

"I have never known any will of mine for one major event in the conduct of the world affairs to fail in the end, although it may take a long time for the world-forces to fulfil it."

Sri Aurobindo (October 1932)

It's very interesting! I didn't know Sri Aurobindo had said that so openly.... I knew the fact, I had noted it, but I didn't know he had said it so openly. Interesting. Everything is certain.

(Mother nods her head)

12. August 1967 – Message for India; on Christianity

"O India, land of Light and spiritual knowledge, wake up to your true mission in the world. Show the way to union and harmony."

I deliberately didn't use the word peace; I said harmony. I don't want to say peace, because for them, peace means to utter platitudes to other nations so as not to fight (!). So I don't want to use that word.

(Mother comes across the note she wrote on Christianity and commented on July 29)

"Christianity deifies suffering to make it the instrument of the earth's salvation."

You know, it came to me as a discovery.... The whole religion, instead of being seen like this (gesture from below), was seen like that (gesture from above).... Here is what I mean: the ordinary idea of Christianity is that the son (to use their language), the "son of God" came to give his message (a message of love, unity, fraternity and charity) to the earth; and the earth, that is, those who govern, who weren't ready, sacrificed him, and his "Father," the supreme Lord, let him be sacrificed in order that his sacrifice would have the power to save the world. That is how they see Christianity, in it's most comprehensive idea — the vast majority of Christians don't understand anything whatsoever, but I mean that among them there may be (perhaps, it's possible), among the cardinals for instance who have studied occultism and the deeper symbols of things, some who understand a little better... anyway. But according to my vision (Mother points to her note on Christianity), what happened was that in the history of the evolution of the earth, when the human race, the human species, began to question and rebel against suffering, which was a necessity to emerge more consciously from inertia (it's very clear in animals, it has become very clear already: suffering was the means to make them emerge from inertia), but man, on the other hand, went beyond that stage and began to rebel against suffering, naturally also to revolt against the Power that permits and perhaps uses (perhaps uses, to his mind) this suffering as a means of domination. So that is the place of Christianity.... There was already before it a fairly long earth history — we shouldn't forget that before Christianity, there was Hinduism, which accepted that everything, including destruction, suffering, death and all calamities, are part of the one Divine, the one God (it's the image of the Gita, the God who "swallows" the world and its creatures). There is that, here in India. There was the Buddha, who on the other hand, was horrified by suffering in all its forms, decay in all its forms, and the impermanence of all things, and in trying to find a remedy, concluded that the only true remedy is the disappearance of the creation.... Such was the terrestrial situation when Christianity arrived. So there had been a whole period before it, and a great number of people beginning to rebel against suffering and wanting to escape from it like that. Others deified it and thus bore it as an inescapable calamity. Then came the necessity to bring down on earth the concept of a deified, divine suffering, a divine suffering as the supreme means to make the whole human consciousness emerge from Unconsciousness and Ignorance and lead it towards its realization of divine beatitude, but not — not by refusing to collaborate with life, but IN life itself: accepting suffering (the crucifixion) in life itself as a means of transformation in order to lead human beings and the entire creation to its divine Origin.

That gives a place to all religions in the development from the Inconscient to the divine Consciousness.

It isn't simply a little remark noted down in passing: it's a vision. One can always present it as something conceived mentally, but it's not that; it's not that, but it was, if you like, a necessity in the development. And that PLACES things.

Islam was a return towards sensation, beauty, harmony in the form, and the legitimization of sensations and joy in beauty. From a higher viewpoint, it wasn't of a very superior quality, but from a vital viewpoint, it was extremely powerful, and that's what gave them so much power to spread, to appropriate, to seize, to dominate. But what they did is very beautiful — all their art is magnificent, magnificent! It was a flowering of beauty.... Then there were others — it all came one after the other. And every religion came as a stage in the development and the relationship with the Divine, to lead the consciousness towards a union which is a totality and not a removal from a whole reality so as to obtain another. The need for totality, completeness, is what caused those religions to come like that, one after another.

Seen in that light, it's very interesting.

Instead of looking at it from below, there was all of a sudden an overall vision from right above of how it was all organized with such a clear consciousness, such a clear will, each thing coming just when it was necessary so nothing would be overlooked and everything might come out, emerge from that Unconsciousness, and become increasingly conscious.... And so, in this immense history, the earth history, Christianity finds its place — its legitimate place. That has a double advantage: for those who despise it its value is restored, and as for those who believe it's the unique truth, they are made to see that it's only one element among others in the whole. There.

That's why I found it interesting — because it was the result of a vision, and that vision came because I started concerning myself with religions (started again, to tell the truth, because I was very familiar with that subject in the past). And when I was asked questions on the Israelites and the Muslims, I looked and said, "Here is their place. Here is their place and their raison d'être." Then, one day I said to myself, "Well, it is true! Seen in that way, it's obvious: Christianity is like a rehabilitation of suffering as a means of development of the consciousness."

And so Sri Aurobindo's sentence assumes its full value.... Christianity came because men were rebelling against pain and trying to escape from the world in order to escape from pain.... Then, as the years went by and with the unfolding, men took a liking to suffering! And because they love it (see how Sri Aurobindo's sentence becomes clear), "Christ still hangs on the cross in Jerusalem." It assumes its full significance.

15. August 1967 – Message

"But in any case the Divine Power is working always behind and one day, perhaps when one least expects it, the obstacle breaks, the clouds vanish and there is again the light and the sunshine. The best thing in these cases is, if one can manage it, not to fret, not to despond, but to insist quietly and keep oneself open, spread to the Light and waiting in faith for it to come: that, I have found, shortens these ordeals."

Sri Aurobindo

16. August 1967 – About Mother’s experience on Darshan day

Do you know, I sat down, when it was nearly time, maybe half a minute before, and instantly, without warning like that, like a staggering blow: such a powerful descent (I was completely immobilised) of something.... At the same time, it was as if Sri Aurobindo was telling me (because the definition came along with the "thing" — it was a vision which wasn't a vision, which was absolutely concrete), and the word was: golden peace. But so strong! And it didn't budge at all. For the entire half-hour it didn't budge. Never before... It's something new, I had never felt that before. I can't say.... It was perceived, but not like an objective vision. And other people spontaneously told me that as soon as they sat down for the meditation (gesture of a massive descent), something came with a tremendous power and immobilised everything, with a sense of peace as they had never felt before in their life.

Golden peace...

And indeed it gave a sense of the golden supramental light, but it was ... such a peace! A solid peace, you know, not the negation of disorder and activity, no: solid, a solid peace. I didn't want to stop: they sounded the gong, but I stayed on for two or three minutes. When I did stop, it withdrew. And it made such a difference for the body — the body itself — such a difference that when the experience went away I felt a great uneasiness and it took me half a minute to find my balance again.

It came and then withdrew. It came for the meditation, then withdrew. For more than half an hour: thirty-five minutes.

And in the evening (at the balcony), there was a crowd (I think it was the largest crowd we've ever had, it filled all the streets; the streets were full of people as far as the eye could see), so I came out. And when I came out, there arose from that whole crowd a sort of... something in between an entreaty, a prayer and a protest, for the world's condition, and particularly the country's. And it rose up in waves.... I looked at it (it was extremely insistent), then said to myself, "Today isn't my day, it's Sri Aurobindo's day," and I did like this (gesture of withdrawal) and put Sri Aurobindo in front. Then, when he came to the fore, while bringing himself to the fore, he simply said, very simply, "The Lord knows better what He is doing." (Mother laughs) I immediately started smiling (I didn't laugh, but started smiling), and there came the same peace as in the morning.

The Lord knows better what He is doing... with his most perfect sense of humour. And everything calmed down right away.

I felt like laughing, but I smiled.

But the minute (really the minute — it wasn't even a state in time, it really was the minute), the minute I made contact with what I call the Supreme, that is, the part that looks after the earth, throughout the years it has always been identically the same thing.

What is different is below. That is the summit. And the summit... that's why I use the word "Supreme," because there's nothing other than "That," which is supreme Peace, supreme Light, a sort of supreme tranquil Bliss, a sense of supreme Power and a Consciousness... an all-containing Consciousness, like that (immense gesture)... and then it's over. It's still. Still — not "motionless," but far beyond movement, far beyond. And identical, with the sense that "it's like that forever." And it contains everything, but... (immutable gesture, the palms of the hand drawn back).

As soon as you make contact with that, everything is fine.

Change, movement, newness is when you are on the way — on the way you keep having experiences, one after another after another; or when you are on the road to transformation, there is one thing, then another, then yet another. But when you make contact THERE, it's over (same immutable gesture). Every time you make contact there, it's like that. And it contains everything, but... you are not concerned with that.

And naturally, it's supreme rest, supreme power, supreme knowledge, supreme consciousness... and something more.

19. August 1967 – A view of knowledge-vision

This morning, for two hours, I had what I believe to be really the most wonderful experience in my life from the point of view of knowledge-vision. And it was so total... from the most essential perception of That which is beyond the creation down to the perception of the body's cells, from high to low like that. And in every plane, the vision of the creation.

It went on for two hours. I walked about, had my wash — it didn't matter in the least, on the contrary there was, added to that, the knowledge of how the body can act without disturbing the state of consciousness.

Afterwards, there was a slight flagging, because there came... I can't say the memory (it wasn't a memory), but all the complaints: the same thing as at the balcony on the darshan day — the human attitude towards the Supreme is only to complain and demand... complain and demand and complain... That's all. It came back. Before, the whole vision was there like that (gesture from high to low), it was magnificent, magnificent: each and every thing, the entire human history, the entire history of intellectual and material evolution, everything, everything like that, everything in its place. It was really fine. And afterwards, there came that wave of complaints.

It was as if the body were asking, "What attitude" (that's what provided the link), "What attitude should I have? What should I do?..." Because there was the vision of life, death, of all occurences, everything was there. The full knowledge of everything. Oh, all the stories of death were very, very interesting, and how mankind has tried to understand, and how there have been all kinds of solutions (that is, partial attitudes), and all of it, all of it was part of the Whole.

Then the conclusion... Oh, at that moment I could have said many things about all the different intellectual and even spiritual attitudes of mankind.... There aren't big differences. The spiritual (what's commonly called "spiritual") boils down to the whole attempt at finding the Divine again by annulling the creation — that's what has been regarded as spiritual life (that's why the word got distorted). To annul the creation in order to find the Divine again.... And then, NOW: the vision of now. We are obviously drawing nearer to the moment of possibility — that is clear. It's a question of time — of course, it can't be on the human scale, but we are on the borderline.

And as I said, the body asked... oh, it had such a wonderful moment! A moment, a few minutes, so wonderful, when it KNEW how it ought to be. It was magnificent. Then the experience came. Till then, it was inexpressible: it was lived, it was a living consciousness, but the mind had become very quiet, so it was inexpressible. Then there came back that great complaint from the world, and the experience started being expressed (Mother looks for a note). It started being expressed, because it isn't just the anonymous demand of thousands of people: it's virtually a shower of letters, questions, demands from people who believe... who believe they are part of the Work, of the Action, who believe they have given themselves, and all their questions — and such futile questions — which to them are of crucial importance, but which are so puerile, stupid, unimportant: how to start a business, the opening date, a name for a house, a message for a meeting.... And what goings-on, it's a deluge from every side. So it all was seen in the new attitude — not "new," the consciousness was fully there, there had been a whole tendency to increasingly adopt that attitude, but now it was KNOWN, fully known: what one must be, how one must be. So I came down abruptly to reply to all that.

For some time there had been lots of questions from people — I refused, quite simply refused to answer; I would reply with some jest or other: "I am not a fortune-teller," or "It's none of my concern, none of my business." Jests, and sometimes I would say, "Ah, let them leave me alone, that's childishness." And people who think they are very dedicated, for instance a man who has already given at least ten lakhs of rupees (he knows it only too well, but still he did give them!) and who wants to work to bring more — but then, his questions... So instead of replying with a quip (that was my last experience: it's like dictated answers, but they are quips), this morning something came in English (Mother reads her note):

"We are not here to make our life easy and comfortable. We are here to find the Divine, to become the Divine, to manifest the Divine.

"What happens to us is the Divine's outlook, it is not our concern.

"The Divine knows better than us what is good for the progress of the world and our own."

Everyone comes and complains and complains — that so-and-so has robbed him, that his wife doesn't love him, that his brother has betrayed him, that... All the idiotic stories by the hundreds, you understand, a deluge.

(silence)

You understand, behind this whole earth evolution, there is, more or less consciously (it's an unexpressed need rather than a precise consciousness), the need to live the Divine — or to put it differently, the need to live divinely. And it is clear that what was expressed as different religions were solutions found individually ("found," and perhaps partially lived); and here [in India], there was this solution: in order to really become the Divine again, there should be no more creation. That was the Nirvanic solution. And instinctively — instinctively — mankind felt death to be the negation of the Divine. But like all negation, it had the capacity to lead and open the way. The solution of Christianity wasn't completely new, it was the adaptation of an ancient solution: a life in other worlds — which was expressed by that quite childish conception of paradise. But that was a conception for public use: a life in the presence of the Divine, exclusively taken up with the Divine, and so one sang and... Touchingly simple. Anyway, they conceived of a world (not a material one) in which a divine life had been realized. In the ancient Indian traditions, there had also been a first hint of already divine worlds, as a sort of reaction to that Nirvanism — if we want to be divine, we must stop being, or if the Divine wants to be pure, he must stop manifesting!... So they were all somewhat clumsy attempts to find the means, and perhaps at the same time inner preparations, to make people capable of really making contact with the Divine. Then there was that great reaction of the cult of Matter, which has been VERY useful to knead it and make it less unconscious of itself: it has forcibly brought consciousness back into Matter. So perhaps all that has sufficiently prepared the moment of the coming of Total Manifestation (gesture of descent).

This morning, during the experience, the body felt the whole bliss of the condition, but it was very conscious of its incapacity to manifest and very conscious in such a perfect peace, like this (gesture with the palms of the hands open upward), in which there wasn't even the intensity of the need. It was simply a vision of how things were, how the condition was. And it was something like this: the conditions of the earth are such, the conditions of the substance are such that a local and momentary manifestation, as an example, is not impossible, but the transformation that would make possible the new Manifestation of the supramental being — and not just as an isolated case, but with its place and role in earth life — does not appear to be immediate. That was the impression.

And there was no anguish to know or anything of the sort, there was simply a very tranquil vision of things, absolutely devoid of almost any need: it was like this (same gesture with palms open), as peaceful as can be, smiling, tranquil, with a sense of eternity.... All that in this body, which was totally, entirely conscious of its incapacity. Naturally, the body, for its part, very clearly feels it neither knows nor is able to know or will or do: simply like this (gesture with palms open), as peacefully open, receptive, surrendered as possible. And that was the result (the vision that the Manifestation was not for the immediate future).

And it always ends in the same way: "What You will."

But with a very clear vision that a collective transformation sufficient to create a new species on earth still seems some way off... without any estimate of the length of time, but not immediate.

The fact is certain.

The fact is certain — it's not a possibility, but a FACT. But as for what's expressed in the earth consciousness in terms of time, that can't be estimated, it can't be calculated.

26. August 1967 – World Union and the real truth

This World Union, oh, how outmoded they are!... There are hundreds and hundreds of such groups that chatter, do nothing and change absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Moreover, as soon as the group was set up, they threw out the man who had started it! They did it under the pretext he was dishonest, but still he was the founder after all. He had gone to Russia, and it was in Russia that the idea of World Union came to him. So four or five of them came together to form this World Union, and fifteen days later they started quarrelling — a year later they threw out the one who had founded it! Then it was the turn of S., who, at least, has some ideas.... Anyway, he too was thrown out. Then they came to me to tell me their miseries! I told them, "Listen, you are profoundly ridiculous: you want to preach world unity, and the first thing you do is quarrel! It shows that you aren't ready." And I left it at that. Then A.B., who was very well known in Africa, recruited all kinds of people and made me see a few of them to ask me if they were able to do something — absolutely nothing, you know, nothing at all: old pillars of a house in ruins, nothing else....

It is from the universal and spiritual point of view that, not exactly "good" as people understand it, but the True, the Truth, will have the final word, that is well known. In other words, the Divine will eventually be victorious. That is what has been said, what all those who have lived a spiritual life have said — and it is an absolute fact. When people transpose it, they say, "I am a good boy, I live according to what I think to be true, consequently life should be a bed of roses for me!" (Mother laughs) To begin with, self-appreciation is always dubious, and then, in the world as it now is, everything is mixed and what openly manifests to the half-blind human consciousnesses is not the Law of pure Truth — they wouldn't even understand it. To put it more precisely, what is constantly realized is the supreme vision, but its realization in this mixed material world isn't seen by the ignorant human vision as the triumph of good (of what men call "good" and "true"). But — to put it humorously — it's not the Lord's fault, it's mens' fault! That is, the Lord knows what he is doing, but men don't understand it.

The ignorance and obscurity present in the world are what gives divine Action a distorted appearance; and naturally, that must tend to disappear. But it is also true that there is a way of looking at things which... you could say, which gives their appearance another meaning — the two are there, like this (intertwined gesture).

(silence)

It always comes down to this: men's judgment is false — false because their vision of things is false, incomplete — and their judgment necessarily has false results too.

The world is in perpetual change — perpetual, it doesn't remain the same for one second — and the general harmony expresses itself more and more perfectly; consequently nothing can remain as it is, and in spite of all contrary appearances, the WHOLE is always in constant progression: the harmony becomes increasingly harmonious, the truth becomes increasingly true in the Manifestation. But in order to see that, one must see the whole, and man only sees... not even just the human field, but his own tiny, so tiny, microscopic field — he can't understand.

It is a double thing that complements one another (same intertwined gesture), and with a reciprocal action: as the Manifestation becomes more conscious of itself, its expression becomes more perfect, and also truer. The two movements go together.

(silence)

That's one of the things that was seen very clearly the other day, when there was that Knowledge-Consciousness: when the Manifestation has sufficiently emerged from the Inconscient so that the whole necessity of struggle created by the presence of the Inconscient becomes progressively and increasingly pointless, it will disappear quite naturally, and progress, instead of taking place in effort and struggle will begin to take place harmoniously. That's what the human consciousness envisions as a divine creation on earth — it will still be only a stage. But to the present stage, it's a sort of harmonious culmination that will change universal progress (which is constant) from a progress in struggle and suffering into a progress in joy and harmony.... But what was seen was that this sense of inadequacy, of something incomplete and imperfect, can be expected to exist for a very long time (if the notion of time remains the same — I don't know about that?). But any change implies time, doesn't it? We can't express it in terms of time as we know it, but it implies a succession.

All those so-called problems (I constantly receive questions and more questions and problems of the mind — all the problems of Ignorance) are problems of earth-worms. As soon as you emerge above, that type of problem no longer exists. There are no contradictions either. Contradictions always arise from the inadequacy of vision and the incapacity to see something from all standpoints at once.

In any case, to come back to the down-to-earth question in his notebook, I don't think any sage in any age said, "Be good and all will outwardly go well for you" — because that's nonsense. In a world of disorder and a world of falsehood, to hope for that isn't reasonable. But if you are sincere enough and total enough in your way of being, you can have the inner joy and the full satisfaction, whatever the circumstances — and nobody, nothing has the power to touch that. But that's something else. But to ask for your business to do well, for your wife to be faithful and your children not to fall sick and all those things, that of course is nonsense!

I had an experience of this sort quite a long time ago (a very long time), when I was still in France, in Paris. There was a student friend in the studio (because I studied in a painting studio for a long time), she was a very good painter, we were close friends, and I started telling her about the Cosmic Review and Théon's teaching. She belonged to a Catholic family of archbishops, even cardinals, anyway it was... And she was extremely interested and wholly convinced: she felt a liberation of the spirit and aspiration. Then, after I had Sri Aurobindo's teaching, I passed it on to her, and there she was really quite taken. But she often told me, "As long as I am awake, everything is fine, but in my sleep I'll suddenly wake up in a dreadful panic: and if the Catholic teaching is true, then I'll go to hell!" And so, a torture. And she would tell me, "When I am wide awake, I see how ridiculous it is ..."

But all those who were baptized and went for a time to confession are part of an inner, a whole psychological entity, and it's VERY DIFFICULT to break free of it; they are bound to a whole — there is ... there is an invisible Church, and all those people are in its grip. To break free of it, one must be a vital hero. A true hero, you understand. Because it's very strong. I saw that all religions have in that way kinds of congregations in the invisible; but the Christian one is the strongest of them all from a terrestrial standpoint. It's much stronger than that of the Buddhists, much stronger than that of the Chinese, much stronger than the ancient Hindu religions — it's the strongest. And naturally stronger than the more recent religions, too — the strongest. And when you are baptized, you are bound. If you don't go to mass and have never been to confession, with a little vital energy you can get out of it, but those who have gone to confession — especially confession — and when you take communion, when you are given Christ to eat (another frightful thing)....

Now that girl was a true artist and a great intelligence, so I had the example. When she was awake, she understood wonderfully; and she herself was furious, but she didn't have... she didn't have the power to get free of the influence on her subconscient.

30. August 1967 – A place of the subtle physical

The last few nights, I have spent almost the whole night, several hours of it, in a place which must certainly belong to the subtle physical and where material life is being reorganized. It's immense — immense — and the crowd innumerable; but they are individualities, not a crowd, which means that I deal with each one of them. And there are also types of documents and writing tables, but there are no walls! It's a strange place. A very strange place.

I have often wondered if the memory of physical forms is what makes me see that world in that way, or IF IT IS really like that. Sometimes there is no doubt because it has its own specific character, but at other times I have a doubt and wonder if it's not in the active memory. Because at that moment I am very conscious, everything is extremely natural, you understand; and it's permanent: I find the same things in the same places again, sometimes with slight differences, but differences made necessary by action. That is to say, it's a coherent world, not wild imaginings. But to what extent are those forms the reflection of material forms? To what extent ARE they really like that, or do we SEE them that way? I am not very sure yet. I had the same problem in the past when I used to go into the Overmind and see the Gods: I always had a kind of hesitation as to whether they really are like that, or whether we perceive them like that because of our physical habits.... There, after a time I reached a conclusion, but here, physically?...

Strangely, there are no doors, no windows, no ceiling or floor, all that is self-existent and does not appear to be subject to the law of gravity, that is, there isn't the earth's magnetic attraction, yet what you write with (laughing) looks like a fountain pen! What you write on looks like paper; the documents are placed in what look like filing cabinets.... You do feel that the substance isn't the same, but the appearance is very close. And I am still wondering about that appearance: is it because of our ordinary cerebral function that we put the appearance upon things, or is it really like that?

I meet almost everyone there. I told you that you are there quite regularly, and we work. As for you, you don't remember. There are others who remember, but their memory is... (Mother twists her finger slightly) just slightly off, that is, not identically what I saw. And when they tell me, my impression is, yes, it's because of the transcription in their brain.... The objective reality of the material world stems from the fact that if you see the same object ten times over, ten times it looks like itself, with differences that are logical, or that may be, for instance, differences of wear and tear — but there too it's like that! If you study carefully, even in the physical world no two people see things in exactly the same way. There, it may be more pronounced, but it seems to be a similar phenomenon....

The explanation becomes very simple and very easy when you enter the consciousness in which it's the material reality that becomes an illusion — it's illusory, inexact: the inner reality is truer. Then, in that case, it's simple. Maybe it's only our mind that is astonished?

Take writing, for instance: I haven't noticed in detail, but when you write over there, you seem to write much more easily.... I don't know how to explain it... it takes much less time. And things are noted down on paper, but is it paper? It looks like paper, but things are noted down much more directly.... It's perhaps the similarity, like when, for example, you use a fountain pen or a pencil: it's not exactly a fountain pen or a pencil, it's something that looks like it and is... (what should I say?) the prototype or principle of that object. But what I mean is that if we were still at the time of the quill or the twig that you dip into ink, I would probably see it like that!... It's the ESSENCE or principle of the thing, which in the memory, is translated as a similarity.

But it's an action. I am aware of the time only when I return, because I have made it a habit to look at the time when I come back to the material consciousness (there is a watch beside my bed and I look at it), and that's how I can say, "It lasted an hour" or "It lasted two hours." But there, you don't have the sense of time at all, it's not the same sense at all — what matters is the CONTENT of the action, and during those hours, many, many things are done, so many. I meet you very regularly, but many others too, and I am at many places at the same time! And when someone tells me, "Oh, I saw you last night, you did this and that," then somewhere up above I say, "Oh, it's true indeed." There's a tiny (same gesture of twist), tiny little difference, but the essence of the thing is the same.

And I have noticed that with those things that are very close to the physical, if you wake up abruptly, and especially if you move upon waking, or if you stir or turn over, they go away. It's only if later I have a very quiet moment and go within myself that I can slowly make contact again with that state. Therefore I am not surprised that most people don't remember. Experiences in the vital, in the mind, are much more easily remembered, but that, that which is very close to the physical...

And its character is such that if you kept the consciousness of it when you woke up, you'd look a little mad. I had that experience two days ago, and it taught me a lot — I looked, studied and studied until I had understood. It was during the afternoon rest (I don't sleep at all in the afternoon, but just enter the inner consciousness), and I had decided beforehand that I would "wake up," that is, get up, at such and such a time. When the time came, I was still very much in my action and it went on, the state of consciousness went on with open eyes; and in that state of consciousness there was... (I can't say "I" because it's not the same "I," you understand; at such times I am many people), but the "I" of that moment was in the habit (not here materially but "up there") of wearing a gold watch (gesture to the wrist) and had forgotten to put that watch on; and looked and noticed it: "Ah, I forgot to put my watch on, what's happened to it? Why did I forget?" Like that. So then, when I woke up (I don't wear any watch here, as you know), when I came back, the two consciousnesses were simultaneous, and I said aloud, "Where is my watch? I forgot to put my watch on." And it's only when I had said that (laughing) that I realized! So it left me thinking, I studied carefully, looked carefully, and clearly saw that at that moment the two consciousnesses were absolutely (Mother closely superposes her two hands), but absolutely simultaneous.

It's very interesting. Oh, all kinds of problems have been solved with that experience. For instance, the problem of many people who are called mad, and who are simply in that subtle consciousness (same superposed gesture): at certain times it prevails, which makes them say things that are meaningless here but have a very clear meaning over there, and so the consciousness is like this (superposed gesture, almost merged). That explains many cases of so-called madness. Certain cases of apparent insincerity are also like that, because the consciousness sees clearly in that region, and that region is so close that you can give things the same names (they seem to have the same shapes or very similar ones), but it's not what is conventionally called here "tangible reality": materially, outwardly, things aren't exactly like that. And so, there are cases of so-called insincerity that are simply too close a mingling of the two consciousnesses — too close for an active discernment.

Oh, a whole region has been clarified, and not only clarified but with the key to the cure or the transformation. From the psychological, internal point of view, it has explained a great deal of things — a great deal. It brings down considerably the number of cases of real mental derangement and cases of real lies, that is, the cases when one deliberately and consciously says the contrary of what is — that must not be as frequent as we think. Many people say incorrect things like that (floating gesture), but they have perceptions in another world than the purely material world, with too close a mingling and without sufficient discernment to be aware of the mingling.... Sri Aurobindo used to say that real bad will, real hostility and real falsehood are fairly rare cases ("real" in the sense of absolute in themselves, and conscious, deliberate — deliberate, absolute, conscious); that's rare. And that, he said, is what is described as hostile beings. But all the rest is a sort of illusion of the consciousness, consciousnesses that interfere with one another (Mother intertwines the fingers of her two hands in a to and fro movement), but without a precise discernment between the different consciousnesses, which are like this (same gesture), intermingled, each going in and out of the other.

(silence)

So the result has been to see the immensity of the problem to be solved, of the path to be followed, and of the transformation to be worked out.... When you look at it from the purely psychological standpoint, it's relatively easy and swift, but when you come down to this (Mother touches her body), to the outer form and so-called matter, oh, it's a whole world! Each lesson... it's as if you were given lessons, and it's so interesting! Lessons with all the consequences and explanations. You spend one day or two days like that over a tiny little discovery. And you see that after that, after that day or those hours of work, there is a change in the body consciousness: the light is there, it's changed — changed, the reactions are not the same. But... (Mother gestures to express a world of toil).

And the Presence — the Presence becomes more and more intimate, more and more concrete, and at such times... at times (Mother makes a gesture like a swelling) it's so concrete as to be as if absolute. Then (gesture of being covered again) another state of consciousness comes and everything has to begin all over again.

Interesting.

And it's so clearly to teach you... High-sounding words, great attitudes, remarkable experiences are all very fine up above, but here... nothing spectacular — everything is very modest, very quiet, very unassuming. Very modest. And that's the condition for progress, the condition for the transformation.